Sam Ovens: Hey everyone, Sam Ovens here and today I've got Charles Manual on with us. Charles has got an awesome story. He joined Consulting Accelerator in May this year, pretty recent and at the time he joined, he was helping chiropractors get clients online through digital marketing. At the point where he joined he was making about $2000 per month and through going, by going through Consulting Accelerator he was able [00:00:30] to scale up to about $6000 per month and that's just in the months that have just been. On this interview today we're going to discuss how he got into the chiropractic niche, how he knows about digital marketing and paired these two things together and also how he gets his clients and has been able to scale from 2 to 6K that quickly. Thanks for jumping on with us.
Charles Manuel: Thanks for having me Sam, I'm excited to chat and not lose electricity this time. Those are my two goals for the call.
Sam Ovens: Awesome. [00:01:00] Let's rewind a couple of months. What was the situation then?
Charles Manuel: Right before I started Consulting Accelerator, really the beginning of 2018 I was working with a buddy of mine who is also in digital marketing, we were colleagues, we'd collaborate on some accounts. He said to me, "Charlie you really have to niche down. It's cool that you're a generalist" because at the time I was working with whomever I could find for clients, auto shops, [00:01:30] painters, roofers, didn't really matter. He said, "You need to niche down because you offer more value like that." We talked about it and of course all the things you learn in the course about why that adds more value. I said, "Okay I guess I'll give that a shot." I really struggled for the first five months of the year to get any business niching down. I closed basically two clients for websites, $3000 a piece and was barely staying alive as a business [00:02:00] like that. I was seriously thinking about getting a job and going back in the corporate world at that point. Then my friend, same friend actually, turned me onto your course and said, "Why don't you give this a shot? Sam's the best in the industry. I think this will really help you out." That's where I am now, or that's where I started.
Sam Ovens: Got it. Did you check out the webinar or?
Charles Manuel: Yeah. I watched the webinar and it was one of [00:02:30] those things where I was really on my last leg trying to figure stuff out. I'm watching the webinar and recording it actually because I wanted to watch it back with my wife again that night. I'm on the phone with her and she's at her corporate job and I'm like, "I really got to do this. I recorded the webinar, this is what I need. Let's make the jump." She didn't even question it actually, she could hear how sold, how passionate I was about what you [00:03:00] were offering from the webinar. She said, "That's fine, use the credit card, buy it." I dove right in.
Sam Ovens: Got it. Why did it stand out to you? Why did you want to join in?
Charles Manuel: Gosh. You asked me this last time, I couldn't really come up with a good answer either. I really think what it had to do most with Sam was the fact that other people had affirmed so much the things that you had done. I saw [00:03:30] other people in the healthcare space from the testimonials that you had helped as well. When I saw that I was like, okay there is something here that people in my space are finding success with and others are finding success with that I could learn from as well. That was a big selling point. The second on I think was the community, the Facebook group because when you work for yourself, you know this, sometimes you get lonely because you're just sitting in your house by yourself [00:04:00] clacking on a computer and whatever else. Having that community I think was a really huge selling point for me as well, people to bounce ideas off of, someone to say I'm really not feeling it today to motivate you, that was really big for me too.
Sam Ovens: Got it. At the point right now in this story you joined Accelerator, you were making 2K a month, were you already niched down and just helping chiropractors or were you a generalist at this point?
Charles Manuel: [00:04:30] I was niched down but my wife was saying to me, "Start cold calling everybody and get some business in the door or get a job" was what my wife was saying to me. I knew that niching down was the way to go. I said, "Well that's too bad, maybe I'll find a job next month if this doesn't work out." I stuck with that, both on the advice of the course and just other experts in the field I had spoken with.
Sam Ovens: Got it. Then [00:05:00] why did you need to buy the course at all? You were in a situation where you needed to get more clients-
Charles Manuel: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: ... why didn't you just get more clients?
Charles Manuel: That's a rough question. Part of it had to do with my prospecting methods and my sales methods I think were the biggest pieces. My background is in financial advice, I was a financial advisor right out of [00:05:30] college, I did fairly well. I got fired from fighting with my boss over the poor ethics of the company is the long story short of that and decided to go into digital marketing. The skill set I had from that was cold calling. I was like, I can cold call doctors, receptionists, no big deal. It doesn't work like that. The course, the primary benefit of the course right now, I still have so much more to learn from it [00:06:00] is the new prospecting methods that I'm using, which have to do very heavily with organic outreach on Facebook which is what I had success with. That's why I needed the course because I needed to learn a new method to get these chiropractors to know, like and trust you. That's what the course really helped me with.
Sam Ovens: What was stopping you? You said prospecting methods, sales methods, how did this materialize?
Charles Manuel: [00:06:30] I think, what do you mean by how did it materialize?
Sam Ovens: What scenario would keep coming up that was blocking you from being able to get more clients?
Charles Manuel: The primary one is I would just spend all day on the phone. I'd make about 100 cold calls a day to different chiropractic offices and the easiest way to explain it is if you talk to any chiropractor who has a fully built out office, [00:07:00] he trains CAs, which is their receptionist two things. He trains them how to appropriately bill for whatever services they're receiving and how to make sure that guys like me don't get to talk to him. With that in mind, most receptionists don't let you through. I tried all sorts of different stuff, building rapport with receptionists, trying to send them small gifts if I really thought they were a good company, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's just not the channel that chiropractors responded to. I was having a real [00:07:30] block with that, figuring out that I needed to do something different and what would be most effective.
Sam Ovens: Got it. You try calling them and you couldn't get through because they would block you and you were kind of snookered in that position because that's what you knew how to do, cold calling.
Charles Manuel: Right.
Sam Ovens: But cold calling in this industry was different because of the gate keeper and because that's all you knew [00:08:00] how to do and it didn't work, you didn't know what to do.
Charles Manuel: Right. I had to learn something new.
Sam Ovens: Got it. That makes sense. Then you joined Accelerator and then what happened?
Charles Manuel: I joined Accelerator and I pounded my head against the wall for probably two or three more months just trying to shoehorn your ideas into cold calling because I'm pretty dumb sometimes. Basically finally ... [00:08:30] with Jesse Clark and Nick Houser I just kept saying, "This isn't working, this isn't working." They're finally like, "Charlie, use Facebook. Come on. Use it like this, do this stuff." I actually also connected with David Thompson who you've interviewed as well and who also works with chiropractors. He was kind enough to talk to me about my prospecting methods and said to me, "Charlie, just friend chiropractors on Facebook and start having conversations with them. Get to know [00:09:00] their business." Once I started to do that and I guess the way I like to put it is I stopped shouting and I starting listening. I started having legitimate conversations with chiropractors asking them, "What do you guys want to know about digital marketing? What has not worked in the past? What are your fears about utilizing Facebook, search engine optimization, Google pay per click, anything like that?" [00:09:30] I started building a knowledge set that was hyper specific to chiropractors based around those conversations. Would you believe it? I started closing some deals too. Then it kind of grew from there.
Sam Ovens: Got it. It's interesting, you knew how to do cold calling and it worked in one industry. You moved to a different industry, you tried cold calling and it didn't work. That presented a problem. You had to learn [00:10:00] something new. Most probably how to not use cold calling but then you came in and you tried to bend lots of ideas that weren't cold calling into cold calling.
Charles Manuel: Yes.
Sam Ovens: That's interesting.
Charles Manuel: It's not too smart if anybody is wondering.
Sam Ovens: It's emotionally driven.
Charles Manuel: It absolutely was. The last time we spoke, what I said here was it was all out of fear. It really was. I was afraid to move away from what I knew and [00:10:30] what I had experienced success with. I was like, I can't waste time building a new skill set. I can't waste time trying to learn how to use Facebook organic. That was my real fear. I was still spending four or five hours a day on the phone getting almost no results instead of doing something that other people were experiencing success with.
Sam Ovens: It's fear on one side but on the other side there's also an attachment.
Charles Manuel: Absolutely.
Sam Ovens: [00:11:00] It's like a bond with a child, you know what I mean?
Charles Manuel: Yes.
Sam Ovens: Frequency.
Charles Manuel: Absolutely. A lot of it is, cold calling feels like hard work. I don't know how much cold calling you've done but I come from kind of a blue collar background, I grew up I was a logger as my first job, I was a mechanic. I enjoy the feeling of hard work. Cold calling, at least mentally, it feels like hard work. When I stopped [00:11:30] doing it I felt like I was lazy. I felt like I was wasting time even though these other things were more effective and easier.
Sam Ovens: I think there's just a lot of social conditioning too. We've watched a lot of movies and stuff where there's always the sales, like the guys on the phone just relentlessly and then Wall Street, you know that movie how Fox and Gecko on the phones all the time. Then you watch the [00:12:00] Wolf of Wall Street movie and they're on the phones again.
Charles Manuel: All the time.
Sam Ovens: That is the way it has been and the way we've been conditioned to believe that it is. It's not like that anybody. We still have that sense that what we're doing isn't real and that is real.
Charles Manuel: Yes. Absolutely. That's exactly it.
Sam Ovens: You started, you changed your approach [00:12:30] after three months of stubbornness and, stubbornness is interesting because it's both a good and a bad thing. Sometimes-
Charles Manuel: I agree.
Sam Ovens: Sometimes, I have it too. It's bad when you're attached to something that really isn't that good and you just keep doing it. Kind of like this instance. But it's also good when you won't stop [00:13:00] because you're just relentless and you're not going to let go of this thing, you're just going to keep going. It has both sides. Then you listed to Houser and Jesse on the calls and things, what was it that they said that really just tipped you over?
Charles Manuel: I don't think it was really anything they said. I think it was more like, I've been beating up the phones for six [00:13:30] months, seven months, getting almost no results, barely paying bills and I was at a point where I was defeated. I was just out of ideas and I was like, fine. Anything you guys say I'll do it. It was kind of one of those things. They said, "Stop with the cold calling. Switch over to doing some Facebook organic. Friend people in your niche, make [00:14:00] value added posts, value added Facebook lives in regards to your products and services and show these people what you can do." That's what I started doing. It was night and day. It was just like, oh not only do these people actually want what I'm selling but when I serve it to them appropriately in a medium where they're ready to receive it at a time when they're ready to receive it, which [00:14:30] is really whenever because it's social media, then I started getting organic responses and people interested and things like that.
Sam Ovens: It's pretty much the same thing is cold calling when you really break it down.
Charles Manuel: Absolutely.
Sam Ovens: The first principles. You've got two objects, you and the chiropractor, right?
Charles Manuel: Right.
Sam Ovens: Then you've got the relationships between the objects which is the information traveling, which is either a call or a friend request.
Charles Manuel: Exactly.
Sam Ovens: [00:15:00] It's the same thing but it's happening in a different way and it's happening in a way that's more, for one there's not a third object in the picture which is the gate keeper.
Charles Manuel: Absolutely.
Sam Ovens: That changes a lot. The other model is that object which blocks the channels. That's different. Also it allows that chiropractor to respond when they are ready.
Charles Manuel: Yes.
Sam Ovens: So that you're not calling them in the middle of an appointment.
Charles Manuel: Right. So important. So important. [00:15:30] I can drop a Facebook message to a chiropractor who I've had a strategy session with and he's thinking about it and has more questions, I'll just say, "Hey have any questions?" They might reply that minute or two days later but it's at their convenience. We're both looking at it because unlike email where you kind of have to crack it open and really pay attention, people are on social media all day long. It's everybody's favorite addiction. It's really, really easy because it's so prevalent. It's just there. Everybody is just pulling [00:16:00] out their phone all the time. It makes it really easy to use.
Sam Ovens: That is disturbing really.
Charles Manuel: Yeah it is. I try to make it a point to not have my phone on me now when I'm not working. Even right now it's out in my friend's truck. I'm just like, nope. We'll look at it later. It digs into your cognitive load. If you spend too much time scrolling through feeds, looking at this and that, it doesn't [00:16:30] serve any effective purpose. It's very, very important I think to step away from that if you want to be more effective in this business or in anything.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. I use it as a producer but not a consumer.
Charles Manuel: Exactly. The more content you produce, the less I consume. I find that to be true.
Sam Ovens: I don't consume anything.
Charles Manuel: There you go. You're an outlier. For me, I'll watch YouTube here and there, I enjoy [00:17:00] some YouTube channels and I'll watch that but the more Facebook lives I make, I've started a YouTube channel now. The more blog posts I make, everything like that adding value for my niche, the less I consume I guess almost because I'm just less interested in it. I'm like, why am I watching this worthless crap when I could be spending time making content that honestly interests me and my niche.
Sam Ovens: [crosstalk 00:17:26] Some people ask me why don't you use social media if you tell us to use social media to [00:17:30] advertise. I'm like, well it works great for advertising because most people are addicted to it but that doesn't mean it's good to be addicted to it.
Charles Manuel: Right.
Sam Ovens: I recommend you use it to advertise but then don't use it as a consumer. Then they're like but what if everybody did that? I'm like, well that would be a good thing.
Charles Manuel: Sure.
Sam Ovens: I would like to not make content to be honest. That would be great for me because then [00:18:00] I don't have to do social media posts and all of that. If people could just make rational informed decisions that would be great.
Charles Manuel: Sure.
Sam Ovens: As long as they remain addicted to content then I will have to keep producing it. You know what I mean?
Charles Manuel: That is very true because that is the way people want to consume information right now.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. It's kind of like you know how the mail, I don't ever read my mail either. If someone sends me something in the mail and then they [00:18:30] follow up with me via email and they're like, "Hey did you get that letter?" I'm like, "Dude it's 2018. Are you sending me something in the mail? Why didn't you just email me like now?"
Charles Manuel: Exactly. Drop it in the email.
Sam Ovens: Once those channels become old you just want to let go of them completely like a home phone. It's freer not to have a home phone.
Charles Manuel: Absolutely.
Sam Ovens: Same with mail, it's freeing not to get mail there and just get it emailed to [00:19:00] you instead. I feel like the same thing will happen with social media and all those other things as we evolve to further channels.
Charles Manuel: I'd have to agree with that. Our way of collecting information will just continue to get more effective. It will take less time to learn more. I don't know what that will look like.
Sam Ovens: I reckon we'll bypass the language system.
Charles Manuel: [00:19:30] That is an interesting thought, absolutely because you have to wager that eventually we're going to have some type of telekinesis or the phone will become the medium that we really use to communicate, whatever form the phone takes from there but who knows.
Sam Ovens: The word is just a wave form.
Charles Manuel: Exactly.
Sam Ovens: It's just one that's audible. A visual is a wave form that's visible but we still have to decipher it and encrypt [00:20:00] it on the other end so we receive this thing, we pattern recognize it to this library, we match it to these letters, these combinations, we're like that word means that thing, you know what I mean?
Charles Manuel: Absolutely.
Sam Ovens: It's just like basically a code.
Charles Manuel: For sure.
Sam Ovens: It's not that good.
Charles Manuel: Exactly right because if you think of the English language which is still the most popular language on the planet, every word has 7 to 15 different meanings. [00:20:30] It's ineffective. It's not every word is as useful as it could be.
Sam Ovens: If I say dog, what color is that dog when you see it?
Charles Manuel: I guess in my mind it would be brown but also if you just say you're a dog to me, then Sam how dare you? There's so many different ways that can be interpreted.
Sam Ovens: It's interesting the color one because everyone says a different one. You're the first person I think I've asked that said brown. The one I see is brown [00:21:00] too. But everyone sees a different color. We've built these perceptions around every word that are different from each other and that's just one word. Imagine what happens in a whole conversation of say 2000 words. Someone else has got this mental image that's different from the other person even though they've exchanged the same things and then all this confusion begins.
Charles Manuel: Yes. To cycle this back to cold calling, I find that overcoming objections in [00:21:30] Facebook chats is far more effective. I don't know if you've found this out or if you noticed this but oftentimes people will say, let me think if I can think of a specific example, gosh. I'll just spitball one but your price is X, what's the justification behind that. When you're on the phone you get this feeling that there is time scarcity. You have to say the price is $ [00:22:00] 3000 because of all this stuff and you have to say it in a minute whereas when you're on a Facebook chat, you can see it and choose not to answer it while you think of the answer. You can look up examples of other clients' work for them to link to. You can even use emojis which help to portray emotion in certain words a little bit better. I find overcoming objections in Facebook chat gives you so many more opportunity, the medium I find is more effective for that because you can get more information [00:22:30] into something almost in less time but more in a way that they can consume it at their leisure and really understand your reasoning.
Sam Ovens: That happens on the phone, what's going on in your mind there is you can't access and fetch from the libraries in your mind fast enough. You have to manually fetch. You're going out and looking. With practice you've got all of those libraries there and you know the [00:23:00] most accessed ones and how to key this piece with that. You've got it on call. It's instant. You know what I mean?
Charles Manuel: I could see that, sure.
Sam Ovens: It's just practice. That's what you've got. You've got all these libraries up here and then you receive this piece of information and you know what to pair it with from that based on a previous example of when this came and you knew that piece equaled that. You know what I mean?
Charles Manuel: Sure.
Sam Ovens: Yeah if you're getting, it can relieve a lot of the pressure I [00:23:30] guess because you're not, someone is not listening to your response immediately.
Charles Manuel: Right. Absolutely.
Sam Ovens: Let's talk about your specific process because we talked about you were struggling when you were trying to cold call because you get blocked by that gate keeper. Then you moved to Facebook and adding people as friends and messaging them and posting content. [00:24:00] If we unpack that, what exactly are you doing there? What's your process? Where do you find the people to add them as friends? How does it all happen?
Charles Manuel: What I'm doing or how I started it I guess is probably the easiest way to explain it is I would add myself or request to be added to different chiropractor Facebook groups. I would post nothing in the groups at all.
Sam Ovens: How did you find those groups?
Charles Manuel: Just search chiropractor. [00:24:30] Type it in on the top bar, go to groups, you get your list of groups, add, add, add, add. Never fib in the questions for the groups or anything like that. I would be completely wide open. I'll circle back to that in a minute and why that was so important. They would be, are you a chiropractor? I'd be like, no I'm a digital marketer and I'm really excited to help you guys. Are you going to post ads? I will never, ever post ads I totally promise. I'm literally just here to learn. That's how I would answer the [00:25:00] questions. Then what I would do is I would go in and just look at the members section. I would friend people in the groups that were chiropractors. Some of them would get mad and say, "Why are you friending me, I don't know you?" You can just unfriend me, that's fine. I had this one guy who messaged me for two weeks. I still don't know who you are. I'm sure you don't bud. It's okay. It was really funny.
Sam Ovens: He mustn't have much to do.
Charles Manuel: Exactly. I'm like you must be doing 200 patients a week with all this free Facebook time. Jesus. [00:25:30] I would just keep friending folks and try to play nice with the Facebook algorithm because every once in a while it would say, hey you friended too many people. I would stop for the day. Then what I started to do was daily Facebook lives. I called them chiropractor 10 talks. I would do chiropractor 10 talk colon and then a topic, search engine optimization, how your website should look, Facebook advertising.
Sam Ovens: What's the 10 talk?
Charles Manuel: I got this idea [00:26:00] from a power lifter actually by the name of Stan [Efforting 00:26:03]. He was on Shark Tank. He does 10 talks on his YouTube channel where he just spends 10 minutes while he's doing cardio on the treadmill or whatever talking about a specific talking in relation to power lifting. I like power lifting. That's how I learned that. I was like, he's having a ton of success with that, I will borrow that idea and use it.
Sam Ovens: It's just 10 minutes. That's what the 10 means.
Charles Manuel: Got it.
Sam Ovens: Cool. You do one of these talks [00:26:30] once a day via Facebook live on your personal Facebook profile and it's surrounding anything that might help a chiropractor attached to the niche of chiropracting?
Charles Manuel: Yeah basically it's all around digital marketing pointed directly at chiropractors. I've discovered that there is, insofar as there is true informational content for digital [00:27:00] marketing pointed at chiropractors, there's nothing. It's just salesmen trying to sell them stuff. I started getting messages and replies from people in the comments section of the videos saying this is awesome. It's so nice to learn more stuff. I said, okay I have something here. Then my friend told me he was having a lot of luck with video guides, which is basically a webinar, like an evergreen webinar but let's just not call it a webinar anymore. You aren't there. It's a video guide. [00:27:30] I started making Facebook posts about, I've made three now just for different video guides. I made one for search engine optimization, I made one for Facebook ads and I made one for getting MD and attorney referrals for personal injury cases, which is hyper specific to chiropractors. Each of those were pointed at chiropractors and each of those made me, each of those basically made me my $6000 months, 1, 2, 3 right after [00:28:00] the other.
Sam Ovens: Got it. How this works is you're basically searching for groups around chiropractors, you're joining them, answering the questions honestly, getting in there, learning not posting ads, adding chiropractors as friends from the members list, waiting until they accept your requests and then either a conversation is going to start that way or they're going to see your past and future posts that you do daily via Facebook live [00:28:30] and that might engage them, start making them aware of you. Then they might like you, comment or message you. How do they typically react to that? When they see that thing what is their response?
Charles Manuel: I think in general most of them are really happy to see the content. They're really excited to just have somebody out there who is actually teaching them about this new medium because most of the clients [00:29:00] who I've worked with in the past few months, they're between 40 and 60 years old. They're either looking to bring on another associate doc so they can step away or they're looking to retire and sell the practice. What they need to do is put some type of marketing engine in place so that they can step away because volume increases or so they can say, "Look I'm bringing in X new patients a month therefore my practice [00:29:30] is worth X. That's what you have to pay me for it." With those things in mind, a lot of these guys, they didn't grow up in the technology age. They don't know how Facebook ads work. They don't know how Google ranks a website. I try to use very, very basic terms. I call it the sell to your grandma trick where you want to make sure that everyone can understand the service that you're offering because you explain it so [00:30:00] simply. That's what the focus is for all my video guides that I make and all my Facebook lives. These gents who have spent years learning about the profession of chiropractic can now understand how that fits together with digital marketing.
Sam Ovens: Got it. How do they respond to that, how do you see it? Do they comment? Do they like it? Do they message you? What do they actually do?
Charles Manuel: [00:30:30] Okay, yes yes and yes. They do all three. Sometimes it's a mixture and really the way that I primarily get contacted is when I do the video guides I'll say, "I'm putting out a video guide on X. Comment yes below if you're interested." Then I'll get all these comments below these posts. To me that's an open opportunity for me to direct message them. They've said, "Yes please contact me." Then I'll send them the guide [00:31:00] and then I'll, it's almost like an email funnel basically but I'm using Facebook messenger. They'll say yes, I'll send them the guide and then I'll follow up with them. How did you like the guide? What did you learn? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. There's an opt in on the video guide page for them to schedule a strategy session with me. I probably get four or five of those per video guide at the most. But the majority of the strategy sessions come from message 6, 7, 8 when they haven't responded [00:31:30] to me yet and they're like, "Man Charlie I haven't even had the time to look at this guide. Maybe I really need your help." Then we'll talk more and I'll schedule the strategy session.
Sam Ovens: Got it. Is there a similar sort of, a common pattern that has appeared to you about how this flow goes? You add them as a friend and then they don't message you and you don't message them. They accept two days later and then you post some lives, you see that maybe they liked one of them. Then maybe [00:32:00] they might comment on one later. Then maybe after about seven days of these things they end up messaging you. That's just, hypothetical, I'm asking have you noticed a pattern like this?
Charles Manuel: I don't think there is a structural pattern like you're speaking about, at least not one that I've seen yet, perhaps just because my scale isn't big enough. The pattern that I have noticed is when they feel like I've given them immense value through the content that I've given them, [00:32:30] then they really want to talk. That level-
Sam Ovens: How do you see that?
Charles Manuel: I don't know.
Sam Ovens: You have to know because you said it.
Charles Manuel: Okay, I guess I know because they contact me. That's how I would know. That level- [crosstalk 00:32:48]
Sam Ovens: How does the contact happen?
Charles Manuel: Facebook message, a comment, get in touch with me please. Really those two would be how.
Sam Ovens: Are you putting a call to action at the end of these [00:33:00] 10 minute presentations?
Charles Manuel: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Sam Ovens: What is it?
Charles Manuel: Changes all the time. It depends where we're at. Right now I have a designer that I employ full time for my websites and she's booked out until November. Right now my call to action is, if you want a website before the end of the year get in touch with me as soon as possible because I'm already booked out until the end of November. It changes depending upon what I'm talking about, the specific services I might be offering. Things like that.
Sam Ovens: [00:33:30] Got it. You're saying, hey reach out or comment below, private message me if you're interested in discussing more, something like that.
Charles Manuel: Exactly. I'm testing different stuff like that. I haven't found one thing that's the most effective. Comment yes below seems to be pretty good because that sometimes hit the Facebook algorithm and it will pop it to the top of a lot of people's feeds if there is a lot of comments but I've seen that become less effective over the past few weeks.
Sam Ovens: They actually ruled that out. If [00:34:00] they can [crosstalk 00:34:01] it was too easy to game everyone then.
Charles Manuel: It was so easy. It was awesome.
Sam Ovens: I think the best practice there is just to put a call to action there. If it's there, that's good.
Charles Manuel: I do call to actions in pretty much everything that I do now because why not? If you don't, people are probably just assuming that you're way too busy or that you really [00:34:30] aren't selling anything. You've got to remind them, hey I'm here to help you if you want to get something done let's do it.
Sam Ovens: Then from there you message them, you set up a strategy session call, you book it in and then you have the call with them and you take them through our process and then they buy or not.
Charles Manuel: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: Got it. What are you actually offer to these people? What is included in your service?
Charles Manuel: Right. There [00:35:00] is two things really that I offer. Website with SEO because a website without SEO is just basically a pretty page and nothing and Facebook ads. Those are the two things that I offer.
Sam Ovens: Got it. How do you package that together and price it?
Charles Manuel: For websites, as I said before I used to be selling websites as $3000 chunks with no monthly anything. I've changed that [00:35:30] now because chiropractors aren't as cash rich as one would expect because their services are actually a little bit cheaper usually. A regular adjustment is usually anywhere between $40 and $100. Especially if they're trying to grow their practice they don't have $3000 kicking around. Now what I do is I do a $1500 set up fee on the site and then I do $100 a month for ongoing SEO and hosting.
Sam Ovens: Got it. [00:36:00] How receptive is the market to that offer?
Charles Manuel: Very receptive.
Sam Ovens: Why do you think that is?
Charles Manuel: The price point is right and they like the idea, I don't know, I think they like working with me. I think they like my personality because I've spent, at first I spent a lot of time on the content and now I'm spending more time on letting [00:36:30] people get to know me because they're going to be working with me at least for now until I scale beyond that. A lot of them, they say, "I looked at inception websites, I looked at chiro matrix," these are competitors of mine and they're like, "But I really want to work with you because you're a straight shooter. I like what you say." Things like that. My biggest seller now is all this content I'm putting out. They really resonate with it and then they decide to work with me.
Sam Ovens: Yes. [00:37:00] Important question then is why chiropractors? Why did you choose them?
Charles Manuel: It's funny. I'm actually at my friends, or at my in-law's house picking up gym equipment right now for my buddy's power lifting gym because I'm big into power lifting. I got into chiropractors as a niche because about a year or so ago I hurt my back really badly dead lifting. I went to the ER and the doctor [00:37:30] told me I had a herniated disc and I was going to need surgery or a slipped disc. I said, "Yeah I'm going to get a second opinion." Went to a chiropractor, first time I'd ever gone and he said, "I can get you fixed, don't worry about it." He got me back in the gym in three weeks as opposed to a year plus of recovery and everything else from back surgery. When I told my wife I hurt my back she was like, "Well you're going to have to shut down the business and find [00:38:00] something you can do sitting down because it looks like you're going to be laid up for a while and I don't know what we're going to do."
Sam Ovens: Can't you do the business sitting down?
Charles Manuel: Lying down probably not. I would have had to be on my back for a long time.
Sam Ovens: What can you do? What sort of job or thing can you do lying on your back?
Charles Manuel: That's a good point. I think my wife just really wanted me to shut down my business at that point in time. Perhaps that.
Sam Ovens: I can't think of probably a more suitable thing to do while lying on your back. [00:38:30] You can set your own rules with your business.
Charles Manuel: That's true. I'll give you my wife's Skype ID and you guys can hash that out and it will be fine.
Sam Ovens: What do chiropractors think of power lifting? Are those two at odds?
Charles Manuel: Good question but my answer would be absolutely not because [00:39:00] at least two of my clients that I'm working with right now on personal injury websites, they're both competitive power lifters. They go to at least four or five meets a year each of them. They actually, I find, come together very nicely because a lot of the things you do in power lifting are based along the [inaudible 00:39:24] maneuver which is where you take a big breath in and brace your abs. That is for protection of the spine. [00:39:30] Therefore its very important that you have extremely powerful trunk muscles to protect your spine. Spine care and spine health are directly correlated to how effective you are at lifting lots of weight. If your spine is in bad shape you can't lift a lot of weight. If your spine is in great shape you can lift significantly more weight. I find they fit together extremely well.
Sam Ovens: It's an interesting pairing because would there be a higher [00:40:00] demand or at least a higher potential demand, not necessarily aware demand but potential demand from power lifting participants for the service of chiropracting?
Charles Manuel: Absolutely. There's a lot of, most of the guys at the power lifting gym that I go to, there's actually a big group chat we have because it's a little community gym, it's great. [00:40:30] We argue over who is the best chiropractor in town. I've got to go to Tosk, no go to this guy he's the best. They all use them because it's pivotal to have proper spinal health before you put 500 pounds on your back and try and squat it. You can really hurt yourself if you're not in proper shape spinally.
Sam Ovens: Why don't you pair these local chiropractors to the local power lifters?
Charles Manuel: We're working on it. Absolutely.
Sam Ovens: You could just [00:41:00] find-
Charles Manuel: That's probably the next step.
Sam Ovens: You could get a US Map on Google, get a plot of every power lifting gym and its physical location and then get a plot of every chiropractor and its physical location and then just run a quick nearest neighbor algorithm to find out which chiropractor is closest to each one and form a list of the top 10 by proximity and then grade each one [00:41:30] out of 10 for how good they are. Then you're trying to pair the, every power lifting gym to the closest, most high quality chiropractor, see what I did?
Charles Manuel: That's not a bad idea. Right. [crosstalk 00:41:53]
Sam Ovens: That's very easy to do because those plots already exist. Those data files already exist.
Charles Manuel: [00:42:00] Right. These docs work specifically with power lifters, they have a specific skill for it because it's a different skill set than family chiropractic. Power lifters would definitely find benefit in a type of app where you can just be like, I'm at a meet in New Jersey, I'm seven hours away from home or whatever, my back's not feeling good [inaudible 00:42:27] need to [00:42:30] get adjusted and open the app and go, this guy is good for power lifting because he's in the app. Figure out how that works and do something like that. Absolutely.
Sam Ovens: I think it doesn't necessarily have to be an app. You're just trying to look at that map of America because for one it's good for you to see all the chiropractors on a plot, you know what I mean?
Charles Manuel: Sure.
Sam Ovens: Then it would be [00:43:00] interesting to also see all the power lifting gyms on a plot and look at their proximity to each other. Then rate them about how good they are and everything and pair them so every power lifting gym should have a recommended chiropractor because those two go together. It's like having a car and needing gas.
Charles Manuel: That's a good idea.
Sam Ovens: If you're going to be lifting lots of heavy weight, you're probably going to have something to do with [00:43:30] your spine at some point. You know what I mean?
Charles Manuel: Absolutely.
Sam Ovens: Then you're going to have to go and manually perform that operation. When it could just be here's our recommended chiropractor.
Charles Manuel: Awesome idea.
Sam Ovens: That's also something you could, that way you get to pair both of your passions.
Charles Manuel: Yeah. It was funny I was driving down to Boston here with my buddy, it's about a three hour drive from my house and the whole time he was like, "What do you do? [00:44:00] How can you help the gym?" I was like, "I don't know man, I only work with chiropractors." Trying to really stay in my niche. He's like, "How about you help us out?" He's really trying to sell me on working with him. I think I might have my first gym client actually.
Sam Ovens: Nice it's just a good way because if you think about what you're doing with SEO and website and ads and things, that's trying to find people who might be interested in chiropractic services and then make them aware through paid advertising [00:44:30] but we can find the audience that has a high chance of needing chiropractic because we can study it from your example, it's probably going to extrapolate over the whole population.
Charles Manuel: Absolutely.
Sam Ovens: Then we can just have a recommended one which means we just bypassed the internet and PVC and all that. You know what I mean? You still need to have the website and the PVC and SEO but that's a great channel that would deliver a [00:45:00] nice, steady stream of the best quality clients because they're all going to be referral.
Charles Manuel: Yes absolutely.
Sam Ovens: It's interesting. I'm just looking at your story. There's always a reason why someone chooses something or why they're passionate about something. What the chiropractors all sense in you is that you're interested in chiropracting. You're not just a dude who's selling ads and websites to try and make money to buy a car. You know?
Charles Manuel: Exactly.
Sam Ovens: They can sense that and they [00:45:30] like it. You have the same thing with the gyms and all that. That could work well. What's next for you? Where do you want to take this thing 5 years, 10 years from now?
Charles Manuel: The next step for me is I want to be the number one resource for information when it comes to digital marketing for chiropractors. [00:46:00] Right now I'm launching a YouTube channel which is going to have more long form content in regards to digital marketing for chiropractors. I'm working on an eBook, just content, content, content. I want to continue to give to this community because that's what they respond to. They've been sold to so aggressively over the past 36 months as Facebook marketers and everybody else has come out of the woodwork trying to get all these medical [00:46:30] practices onto this bandwagon that they're very responsive to just getting a feel for how this industry really works and how it can work for them. That's my goal.
Sam Ovens: Got it. What would you say has been the one most transformative part of going through the Consulting Accelerator program for you?
Charles Manuel: The most-
Sam Ovens: Transformative.
Charles Manuel: ... transformative, thank you. The most transformative part I think would have to be [00:47:00] learning how to explore your niche a little bit more I think was the most transformative part. We didn't really dig into this yet but one of the first things I did when I joined Consulting Accelerator is right in week one you say interview people in your niche to get to know them. I just started a podcast with no episodes and I pulled up a blog post of the [00:47:30] top 20 chiropractors in the US from 2017 and I just cold emailed all of them. I said, "Starting a podcast, you're literally going to be episode one but I'm going to throw Facebook ad spend at it so people see it, we can promote whatever you want, I just want to learn more about how you became so successful." I interviewed probably five of the top chiropractors in the country, that's not a bad conversion rate for that. I learned so much about the industry [00:48:00] from that. I got books to read about the industry, different information you really have to know about to market for them effectively, things like that. That was a huge change for me where I went from just a guy who wanted to sell websites to chiropractors like you were saying and had no real understanding or passion for it to someone who really had a good understanding of how it worked.
Sam Ovens: Got it. What would your number one piece of advice be for other members who are going through the program?
Charles Manuel: [00:48:30] Number one piece would be to go to the Q and A calls. The course is incredible, it's more than worth its money. The Facebook group is incredible, it's more than worth the money but Q and A calls are worth 10 times the value. You get to talk with Jesse and Nick who know their shit for real and they will help you out. Go on those calls. If you're having a problem getting your first deal, ask them how you can. If you're having a problem getting your first strategy session, ask them how [00:49:00] you can. That was so helpful to me and really pushed me over the edge, got me off the phones and really helped me grow. That for sure.
Sam Ovens: Awesome. Its good advice. Thanks a lot for jumping on and sharing your story. How can people learn more about you or find you if they've got a sore back or they lift weights?
Charles Manuel: Well if you want to hop in the gym with me you can always friend me on Facebook we can chat. That's probably the easiest way to get [00:49:30] in touch with me. It's Charles William Manual. If you want to learn more about my business, most of it is getting routed through there now too. Just hit me up on Facebook.
Sam Ovens: Awesome. Thanks for speaking with me and we'll talk again soon.
Charles Manuel: Thanks Sam. Talk to you later.